Not to mention, you just make the world a better place. And given the kind of behaviour I see everyday, the world could definitely use some more ettiquette.

Thanks for the tip on the book- I’ll keep a lookout for it, and give it a read.

Historically, chivalry was practiced toward both men and women as a sign of respect. I trust Mr. O’Reilly will apply Steff’s lessons in dining etiquette whenever he hosts company and not just when he’s dining with a love interest. There are a number of other resources on dining etiquette, including Letitia Baldridge’s classic publication.

Oh, and for the record, I actually asked for this “lesson”. Literally. I e-mailed Steff and asked her advice, as a man to a woman. And this is that advice. The advice which I solicited.

As such, I’d like to say thank you to Steff- your advice to date has been very helpful, and I look forward to learning much more.

Oh, one last thing… as a man of integrity, I won’t hide behind anonymity.

Sincerely,
B. O’Reilly

Women need to stop “teaching” men and start resolving their own inner conflicts about the role men have in their lives. Most men have heard it all, and the only rule of engagement I know of in this post-modern, post-femnist age is the female’s unqualified “right” to set the terms in a relationship, subject to change at any time and for any reason.

There cannot be an enduring social contract between the sexes if women believe they can impose the rules without any accountability in return. Instead of asking men to keep changing, (be chivalrous, no, wait, be “sensitive”, no, wait, I want Russell Crowe. Russell Crowe?? He’s so 90s!) it is time for women to fully embrace the post-femnist era with some objective and honest reflection.

Women have won the war against perceived societal constraints but they are not willing to publicly establish anything in its place. Men are backing off, not just because we are confused but because most of us are waiting for you to propose a new deal that both sexes can live by.

Until that time comes (we aren’t holding our breath) we poor lost men will continue wallowing in our female-induced confusion. Incidentally, women will continue to suffer for this confusion as well in the form of short-termm superficial, sex-based relationships. Confounding to us men, women seem to prefer this situation in exchange for maintaining their perceived sense of power in the relationship.

Analyzing men and unilaterally prescribing superficial (though fun and trendy) behavioral fixes in response will not solve the problem with male/female relationships. So I’m volunteering, admittedly with the benefit of internet anonymity, to seed the discussion on what women might consider proposing to us men. (This feels strangely powerful!)

It starts with women analyzing and proving to yourselves (1) that you have character and integrity (2) because you satisfy item (1) you will think, speak, write and behave respectfully toward deserving men (not just the “hotties”) both in mixed company and when you are out with the girls and (3) that you are, based on objective proof that others can verify, well-deserving of all of the good things that good men can and truly want to bring into your lives.

Incidentally, men do not share the view that women automatically meet these requirements just because they are women. The requirement for men to prove themselves daily, whether to earn a woman’s love or the respect of their male peers, has never been relaxed. We would like the same deal from women, which, in my view, leads to the type of true independence that should be the ultimate objective of the femnist movement.

Pssst…a woman with integrity and a sparkle in her eye is sexy as hell. I’d do everything in your post and a lot more for that kind of gal.

We’re going for dinner tomorrow on Granville Island- thought we’d see the improv show afterwards. But if you think that’d be a not-so-good idea…hmmm…actually, yeah, I agree. A nice walk around the water, maybe take the tour in the little taxi boat…you know, I think it’s a damn good thing I listen to you…

And yeah, take a break!! You’re sick!! (Tsk tsk, should’ve gotten a flu shot…heh heh) Chicken soup, hot tea (no milk- either with lemon or honey) and a good film noir- curl up on your couch and let the world do its own thing while you do yours. The rest of us can wait (admittedly, with bated breath) for your next instalment.

Oh, and as for the huge response this whole thing is getting- did I not tell you that this sort of thing is important to us men? If it wasn’t, guys like D.D. wouldn’t be making sick amounts of money “de-wussifying” men.

Get some rest, Steff. We all look forward to hearing from you in a few days. ONCE YOU’RE BETTER.

yes, the amount of comments shocks the shit out of me, considering it’s the boring topic of manners & such. but hey, wicked. glad people care. they SHOULD! :)

but then there’s the financial aside we took, so.

but i’m gonna finish my dishes, heat up chicken stew, and relax. :)

COYOTE:
you know, i disagree with a play on the first date. strongly, actually. i think it’s the wrong move. nice gesture, but it doesn’t allow you to get to know them.

besides, not everyone likes plays. me, i have bad hearing, so i get frustrated at them sometimes, despite loving drama.

first dates should be about getting acquainted. second dates can be a bigger event, and will be more enjoyable now that you know more about each other.

just a thought. plus, if it’s a bust, you haven’t spent as much.

i prefer coffee and a walk, myself. if it’s going well, i might invite him back to my place to continue the conversation in a quiet setting, really allows me to know who i’m talkin’ to.

Steff, you do not suck. At least not in the context in which you wrote that. ; o ) You rock! And much as I dig that you comment on comments, I prescribe shutting down the computer and getting in bed and taking care of yourself. We’ll live without you for an evening.

The thing is, from my point of view, I want to pay for that first dinner, and maybe a show (play, not movie). Because I have a certain old-fashioned sense about me. (Which is why I started asking Steff all these questions- how can I be old-fashioned in a world that wants to be ultra-modern?) And I want it to be nice. But if I fork over a crazy amount for a bottle of wine, I have to question my own motives- not that I’m trying to get her into bed, but that I’m trying too hard to get her, period. As in, “here I am, I’m the perfect guy for you, ’cause I’m willing to spend all this money on you”. And that’s not me. I’m not a sugar daddy, and I’m really not interested in Anna Nicole Smith. (Okay, maybe for a weekend, but that’s it.)

I think I understand the woman’s point of view on this too, from a couple of points of view- spending that kind of money on a first date can come across as showing off, or overcompensating. “I a)have no personality; b)a small dick; or, c)all of the above. So therefore I’m going to use my bankroll to impress you.”

The other way it could be looked at is a power imbalance. Yes, women want us to be their heroes on many fronts (at least that’s the impression I’ve been getting from a lot of the posts from the last week), but they want to have the choice to let us be the hero. (Hmm…a little harder to explain than I thought…)

I believe that women want to be equal to us men. But I also believe that women would like to hand the power over to us. Not in a way that leaves them powerless- rather in a way that says, “I trust you to hold the power. To be the leader. The hero. The man.” (Is this making any sense?)

When a guy starts throwing around wads of cash when with a women who doesn’t herself have wads of cash, I imagine she feels like she has no power, because the kind of power he’s displaying is not one that she possesses, let alone has willingly surrendered to him. Because it’s not her power, she can never take it back- and I imagine that makes her feel very insecure, much as nearly every guy I know (with the exception of the Lost Souls) feels threatened by women who make more money than them.

Does any of this make sense, or did my train of thought entirely de-rail?

And as for this:

“As far as girls thinking that beacause a guy spends money and wants something…every guy over 30 has figured out and escort is cheaper than a date…

Women need to get over themselves and learn to stop overthinking everything…”

Anon, you’re talking about basic human nature, and part of what makes women, women. The point of all this is to bridge the gap between the sexes- really, to bring romance, not “ooh, a bubble bath” or “ooh, a candlelit dinner”, but REAL romance back into the world.

That attitude doesn’t exactly achieve that.

And at 36, I honestly don’t know how much escorts are, ’cause it’s never even occured to me to hire one. When I go out with a woman, or even go to bed with a woman, it’s because she wants to be there…not because I’m paying her. I know, it’s kind of a hang-up I have, but I’d much rather hear, “Oh God, don’t stop!” than, “You’ve got 15 minutes left…”.

Each to their own I guess…