1. Anonymous
Posted April 17, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink | Edit

I understand where you are coming from Steff but I read a book called “Going all the Way” and “Harmful to Minors” both had chapters that dealt with young girls having relationships with adult men. Overall the girls said that those relationships helped them or maybe forced them to grow up but they didn’t regret the experience. I am not saying we should let pedophiles run free but unfortunately I am terribly open minded and think we should try and understand where they are coming from, not necessarily tolerate but understand.

2. Scribe Called Steff
Posted May 11, 2008 at 4:50 pm | Permalink | Edit

Mm, no, I don’t think I really need to understand these guys. I’ve tried, I’ve given up.

But I know where you’re coming from. :)

Also: Last year, I was a jurist in a trial for a serial rapist. I listened to about 4 weeks of testimony by 5 psychological experts (2 for defense and 3 for prosecution) about rape and child molest. I learned a lot of things that have made me pretty uneasy. The worst of which is: Child molesters, according to the statistical data collected over the last 50 years, don’t get “better” with age. They continue to be pedophiles until they die. There is no treatment that works for these types. All 5 agreed on this point.

Apparently, according to these experts, the “garden variety” rapist does get better with age. This was the crux of their argument. “But he’s not a pedophile.” It didn’t fly with us, and we threw his ass back in jail. He was still a major lying asshole with no regard for the women’s lives he had destroyed.

Your stuff is always thought-provoking, Steff. I wish I could keep up and comment more often.

I just figured it was a good argument to raise, and I’m glad it provoked comments.

And 21 is way too old. Ha! :)

(Your PM really does look quite dorky. In fact, I’d say I’d rather NOT have a beer with him! But let’s leave poor Harry out of it.)

Little did I know Holland would make worldwide news with this current piece of work.
I think I may assume that I do not need to add how I feel about about pedophelia and so I’ll just skip on to saying that I, all of the Dutch I know, and probably even more that I don’t know do not back these numbnuts or their ideas.
I don’t know how they are, rights-wise, but if they manage to form a party (after all, if extreme right gets to speak up, why not them), the sad thing is they’ll probably get one or two votes too.

On a side note: As far as the age thing is concerned, the one biology class I did go to taught me that about every seven years your body goes through considerable changes and therefore we may assume that the age of 21 is the legal age.
Ofcourse, I just saw a Tom Green movie and I’m pretty sure 21 means nothing to him – it’s all relative.

So, closing of with once more my apologies for the idiotic behaviour of this hopefully select group of Dutch.

______________________

I’m a fan of the Romeo-and-Juliet exemption. If kids underage are playing with each other, then so be it. I think it’s too young, but it’s not a crime. I think there should be a window of how much age difference is acceptable, and I don’t think there should be arbitrary convictions when an underage person is involved.

I think these guys are a minority. I think the NAMBLA coalition for MAN-BOY LOVE is fucking ridiculous; it’s why I refuse to buy any writing by Allen Ginsberg, since I don’t want his estate having my money when I know he was a rabid supporter of NAMBLA.

I think 18’s too old for the age of consent, that 16 makes more sense. We can’t ignore the body’s natural hormones, and they sure as fuck fire up before 18. I’d even support 14, but not for those who are over the age of 18 trying to fuck them. 17 and 14, sure.

I think there is no magic number and everyone ages differently, but I believe there has to be a law, and setting it for the few who are more vulnerable is far more important than lowering the bar for those who are “advanced.” If this inconveniences some dirty old men or sinister Mrs. Robinson types, then too fucking bad, but it’s important that we preserve what little innocence we’re all entitled to enjoy for a time.

I remember the feeling of losing my innocence, and it happened before I lost my virginity. I remember being sad and feeling like I would never be the same. It wasn’t even a sexual occurence, but at least I was cognizant of what in my life had changed — if only because I was old enough to understand the implications. Had I been younger, it would have just been a confusing day for me. What our bodies are capable of feeling, then, does not necessarily reflect our emotional maturity levels, and that’s what the law seeks to provide protection for.

And Mhorts, this isn’t about stigmas and hang-ups. I’d argue that fucking at too young an age is what creates stigmas and hang-ups in your own mind. It’s fucking hard on some people. If society seeks to insulate us from that experience, then i don’t think it’s a bad thing. To believe someone’s fucked up for wanting to fuck 12 year olds when they’re 25, 35, or 45 or older, that’s not a fucking hang-up; that’s a pretty natural reaction, and I don’t feel the least bit bad about judging it.

Wanting to have an incredibly adult and mature relationship with a child is borderline whacked in my world, and I don’t foresee myself “opening my mind” to that at any time EVER in the future. Period.

(And to the commentor about NAMBLA: They don’t try to get people elected to office, so… They’re not really a political entity, they just provide a voice. A voice I wish would shut the fuck up.)

But twelve years old is way too young. In fact, for me, eighteen and nineteen were still too young. So thanks for the rant, Steff.

I personally waited until I was 18 and in a committed relationship to start having sex. I’ve left that relationship and been more open since, but I think I did it the best way for me. While I am a huge proponent of cultural relativism (basically, morals can only be defined as relative to an individual culture), some things are necessary to restrict for psychological reasons even if not moreal reasons: children’s innocence must be maintained as long as possible without restricting them; who wouldn’t want to have plenty of “good ol’ days” memories later on? So while I’m all fine with a group wanting to do with their lives as they want, I’m not so fine with them doing it at the expense of others’. I would have no problem with pedophilia/bestiality if it didn’t ultimately have such a long-term negative effect on the younger/non-human party.

I hope I’m making sense in my tired state. :)

~ RaeAn

I agree with all the commenters above that while we each mature at a different rate, we need to protect children by drawing a line somewhere. Personally, I would have kicked the ass of any much older man having sex with my daughter at any age less than 18.

I’ve nursed serious problems with relating to people in a sexual relationship me entire life.

That whole movement is completely fucked up. FUUUUUUCKED.

(Sorry to rant but its a personal bugbear)